[TOS] POSSE CA planning meeting minutes 2009-12-17

[Mel Chua]

Today's meeting log. High level points:

* current and past planning meeting notes are at 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning

* We need a date and location to begin inviting people and planning in 
earnest. Alolita?

* Instructors for first (CS) POSSE in CA this summer: Mel, training 
Karsten and Alolita as instructors.

* Instructors for second (Design) POSSE in CA this summer: Karsten, 
Alolita, and (hopefully) Mo Duffy (who will, if things go well, have 
co-taught a POSSE in Boston immediately beforehand).

* In the meantime, we're splitting up who's-teaching-what at 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning#Syllabus_planning, 
which is still a strawman.

---

19:02:13< mchua> quaid: I *think* our meeting time is now for POSSE CA, 
still waiting for alolita.
19:02:16< mchua> I'll start logging now, though.
19:02:19< mchua> #startmeeting
19:02:35< mchua> uh... zodbot?
19:02:38 * mchua checks if we are logging
19:03:12< mchua> ...doesn't look like it, I'll do it manually.
19:03:56<@ctyler> mchua: zodbot is supposed to have been configured for 
meetbot but not announcement functionality here.
19:04:17<@ctyler> maybe that means he doesn't respond in-channel to 
commands but still logs?
19:04:19< mchua> hm, 
http://meetbot.fedoraproject.org/teachingopensource/ doesn't have our 
current logs though. Hm.
19:04:26< quaid> ok, I'm here
19:04:29 * ctyler doesn't know
19:04:31< mchua> Anyway, fallback of Mel-posts-logs is not so bad.
19:04:52< quaid> well, we can check for the moment while we ping alolita 
out of channel?
19:04:56< mchua> sure.
19:05:16< mchua> quaid: Do you need any catching-up on what happened 
last week?
19:05:23< quaid> yes
19:05:30< mchua> the logs were posted, nothing else happened since then 
afaik
19:05:32 * mchua finds logs
19:06:19< mchua> quaid: 
http://teachingopensource.org/pipermail/tos/2009-December/000712.html
19:08:25< quaid> ah, I did read that, thanks
19:08:39< quaid> I then sent the s/ca/cali/g post etc.
19:10:03 * mchua nods
19:10:11< mchua> I just added the notes to 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning
19:10:17< mchua> er, meeting minutes link.
19:10:35< mchua> So we have a topic, and a tentative location, which is 
not bad.
19:10:52< mchua> We can't really jump into action (inviting people, 
confirming plans) until we know we have a host and date, so people can 
book plane tickets.
19:11:10< mchua> But we can figure out curriculum and instructors and 
the scale-out-to-the-second-CA-POSSE for the summer (Design) plan.
19:11:43< mchua> quaid: It sounded like you and Alolita wanted to become 
POSSE instructors?
19:12:55< quaid> I think so, yes
19:13:06< quaid> it makes sense; we'll  be able to scale the Bay Area better
19:13:15< quaid> it may take a few years worth to get it to explode
19:13:23 * mchua nods.
19:13:46< mchua> Okay. I'll have to continuously apologize for the 
fuzziness from the POSSE-admin side, such as we have one :)
19:14:14< mchua> Right now, the strawman for "how do you learn to be a 
POSSE Instructor?" is "you teach a POSSE with someone who is, who can 
then 'bless' you"
19:14:20< mchua> ...and maybe we should just set that as policy for now.
19:14:49< mchua> To think out loud a bit: I think that between the three 
of us we'll have more than enough mad skillz to teach a CS one.
19:15:12< quaid> ok
19:15:16< mchua> And for the second one, Design - Mo and I are trying to 
do a HCI POSSE in Boston, and I want to see how early in the summer we 
can push that.
19:15:16< quaid> 'greed
19:15:31< mchua> Because I'd like to send her over to CA, if possible, 
to tag-team with you and Alolita to teach the second one.
19:15:41< quaid> ah, instead of you?
19:15:43< mchua> (iow, if all goes well, you shouldn't need me to be there.)
19:15:47< quaid> coolio
19:15:50< mchua> Well, I don't know HCI. :)
19:16:15< quaid> this is second Design in Cali?
19:16:19< quaid> or second CS in Cali?
19:16:22 * quaid loves that Mo can do both :)
19:16:58< quaid> another one of y'all Renaissance women
19:18:02< mchua> second design in cali
19:18:08< quaid> right o
19:18:19< mchua> I would imagine that they're spaced far enough apart 
that we wouldn't be able to do one realllllly long trip for both
19:18:27< mchua> and it's expensive to fly back and forth and back and 
forth and back
19:18:29< mchua> *inhale*
19:18:35< mchua> and forth and back and forth
19:18:54< mchua> so that's the game plan I'm operating under right now.
19:19:25< mchua> quaid: so here's the big thing I think we can do right 
now: figure out who's going to be teaching what.
19:19:39< mchua> That way I don't get all freaked out about learning git 
more if you've already got it down, and such. ;)
19:19:44 * mchua posts up 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_2009#Topic_Schedule
19:19:48< mchua> quaid: three questions:
19:20:01< mchua> 1) is this the right curriculum? if not, what's the diff?
19:20:30< mchua> 2) what topics in the revised curriculum (once we come 
up with a first version of an answer to #1) would you want to teach?
19:20:40< mchua> 3) what materials/prep/learning do you need to do #2?
19:25:26 * quaid looks
19:27:01< mchua> We should teach what we know, too. If you love love 
love love love docs, we should teach the CS stuff from that angle.
19:27:26< mchua> I've been in development, QA, and support - but never 
got terribly deep into any of those.
19:34:08< quaid> mchua: I can teach most of that curicullum, save - UI 
Bug, Debugging and Testing
19:34:33< quaid> basically, I can take anyone down to the code level for 
changes, and how to make and submit them as a patch
19:34:38< quaid> the social and process elements, etc.
19:34:45< quaid> the part I cannot do is advise on the actual coding 
itself :)
19:35:04< quaid> so, if you gave me a Person Who Knows $Language, I can 
teach all around that )
19:35:25< quaid> in terms of passion, it's probably all the 
communication/social elements
19:35:29< quaid> the softer side
19:36:54< mchua> quaid: presumably CS professors know $Language for 
multiple values of $Language.
19:37:10< quaid> right
19:37:38< mchua> I know enough to be able to pick up syntax basics on a 
lot of things quickly if I don't already know them, and have worked in 
everything from assembly to C to Python to Scheme to Haskell to...
19:37:43< quaid> debugging/testing is also thin for me, depending on the 
need -- an expert I can turn in to an open source expert, but not a 
newbie :)
19:38:10< mchua> Again, I'm no ninja in any of those languages, but I'm 
good enough to speak it with someone who knows it, and to point people 
in the right direction for better resources/teachers...
19:38:14< mchua> I'm bootstrappable.
19:38:27 * mchua is hack of all trades
19:38:47< mchua> Ok. I can do the "I have taught at the college level 
before" thing.
19:39:22< mchua> quaid: maybe I should rephrase #1: what parts of the 
curriculum can you *not* teach (or don't want to)?
19:40:32< quaid> well, I think I answered that one
19:40:50< quaid> I don't think I can come up to speed fast enough on 
code-level change details, debugging, or testing
19:40:53< quaid> (I could be wrong, though)
19:41:21< mchua> Oh, okay
19:41:23< quaid> but I think the rest of that I've done, in some 
fashion, sometimes a lot, and can get down a specific tool (e.g., git 
with patch-fu)
19:41:33< quaid> also, I _expect_ to know packaging by then )
19:41:54< mchua> I can do code-level change details, debugging, testing.
19:42:23< mchua> Alolita can also hopefully take some of it, and 
mentioned too that we could bring in local experts as guest speakers, 
and maybe one or two of them would want to take a topic if they have a 
project they're a Total Code Ninja for.
19:42:26 * mchua grins
19:42:34< mchua> Same here.
19:42:39< mchua> We've got a deadline for learning then. :)
19:44:07< mchua> quaid: gimme a minute, and I'll try to break that table 
out into a topics list on the POSSE CA wiki page so we can mark down 
tentative names.
19:44:50< mchua> I want us to have to make as *little* new stuff as 
possible and learn as little new stuff as possible during the actual 
POSSE week itself
19:45:02< mchua> 'cause you and Alolita will be learning to teach a 
POSSE already and that's a ton
19:46:11< mchua> quaid: I'm putting alolita down for "what is open 
source" because she's from the OSI and all :)
19:59:07< mchua> quaid: 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning#Syllabus_planning
19:59:15< mchua> quaid: my name appears too many times on this list.
19:59:21 * mchua changes that
19:59:46< mchua> there we go
20:00:06< mchua> quaid: is this a good place to wrap up? At some point 
we really just do need a date and locatoin to run forward.
20:11:14< quaid> yeah, I gotta run
20:12:31< mchua> quaid: thanks, I'll see ya later
20:12:43 * mchua goes back to note high-level points from discussion
20:17:20< mchua> #info current and past planning meeting notes are at 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning
20:17:39< mchua> #action We need a date and location to begin inviting 
people and planning in earnest. Alolita?
20:18:12< mchua> #info Instructors for first (CS) POSSE in CA this 
summer: Mel, training Karsten and Alolita as instructors.
20:18:42< mchua> #info Instructors for second (Design) POSSE in CA this 
summer: Karsten, Alolita, and (hopefully) Mo Duffy (who will, if things 
go well, have co-taught a POSSE in Boston immediately beforehand).
20:19:15< mchua> #info In the meantime, we're splitting up 
who's-teaching-what at 
http://teachingopensource.org/index.php/POSSE_California_CS_Planning#Syllabus_planning, 
which is still a strawman.
20:24:54< mchua> #endmeeting
20:25:14< mchua> Nope, no zodbot logging.
20:25:22< mchua> Well. Lemme post these things to list anyway.